Handouts
Click here to view: Listening – Best Practices
Click here to view: Listening – Some Obstacles
Transcript
This document is a direct transcript of an audio recording, and may contain transcription errors and other minor edits for the sake of clarity.
MARY FRANCES: I am . . . oh, I’ll wait till you all get your resources.
So. My name is Mary Frances Loughran. I often go by Mary so I don’t get confused with the wonderful Mary Frances Sparrow. Yes, there have been some funny moments concerning that.
I thought I’d show you this t-shirt I thought was applicable for what we are doing. [Audience laughs as Mary Frances holds up a t-shirt that says “History Nerd.”] I thought about wearing it but I’m too cold. [Laughter.] It’s short sleeves.
But I do have a joke for you. I thought that since we are talking about our sources, in a sense our history as the People of Praise, I would start us off with a history joke.
So a man from the Soviet Union obtains a permit to move to the United States. Upon meeting his new Russian neighbor, his American neighbor asks the Russian, “How do you like your apartment? How does it compare to your apartment back in Russia?”
“Oh, my old apartment was perfect. I could not complain.”
So his neighbor then asks him what his job was like back home.
“Oh, my job was perfect. I could not complain.”
So the neighbor asks him what the food was like back in the USSR.
“Oh, the food was perfect. I could not complain.”
Puzzled, the neighbor finally asks him, “If everything was so great in Russia, why did you move here?”
The Russian replies, “Here, I can complain.” [Audience laughs.]
In this talk I want to provide you with some information that should be helpful to both you as individuals and men’s groups and women’s groups as they select from each time period the talks that they want to listen to.
I am going to provide you, the mentors, with information that will help you decide which sources to listen to. This is information that then you share with your leader groups and that they, in turn, can share with their women’s groups or men’s groups.
I’m gonna share with you some advice about how to listen to the sources so you get the most out of them, and I’m gonna to warn you about some common pitfalls. The emphasis of this talk is on how to listen, to the sources and to one another, not how to discuss the sources.
I’m going to give you some tips on how to lead a group decision-making process about which sources to listen to and discuss together. These are tips that you can then share with those that you will be training.
First, we thought it would be helpful for you to have some background and context on the purpose and the process that the consultation planning team has been using to select and make the sources available to the whole community.
Remember that the purpose of Phase I is to understand our past. Discerning our future, what we will take up in Phase II, depends upon doing a really good job with Phase I, understanding our past. That means learning how to listen and to discuss the sources. Proverbs 1 says, “Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance.”
It also means figuring out what sources will help you understand our past. That means in large part, asking the people that you serve, “How can I help you come to a deeper understanding of our People of Praise history?” Deuteronomy 8 says, “And you shall remember the whole way that the Lord your God has led you these 40 (or maybe I should say 50) years in the wilderness. . . .”
It will help you to know the process used for selecting sources for the catalog. I’m going to try to “draw back the curtain” a little bit, so to speak. We want you, and we want everyone, to know as much about the process. Nothing hidden or secret, or only information for some people.
We have thousands of sources in the People of Praise archive. David Salmon, Mary Frances Sparrow, Chris Vieck, Kathy Gleason, Debbie Mixell, Sean Connolly—they are the ones that make up the Materials Resource Committee. They have been hard at work selecting sources from our archives to include in the catalog for each time period. And there will be four time periods in all.
The materials resource committee has been working with 57 readers, asked from all ages and walks of life across the branches. The committee has gathered lots of information on the sources from these readers. I’m a reader, and maybe some of you out there are readers also.
Lots of people have been involved in the selection of sources to include from each of the time periods. These, then, are included in what is shared in the app and on the website, and listed in the booklet. So, you all have your booklets. . . . So, the first time period are [sic] all listed in here, along with space for each talk for your responses. There will be a booklet for each time period. At least, that’s the plan—but we want your input and input from individuals in your groups to know if they’re working, and if they’re helpful and useful.
There are also transcribers that have been hard at work, putting audio into a written format for those who may have challenges listening to a talk, or for those recordings which are not of the best quality. And for those sources that only exist on paper, we have a team that’s working to convert them to audio using computer-generated voice technology.
One of the things about knowing all this information is that it generates, at least for me, a lot of excitement and enthusiasm. There’s a lot going on! There’s a lot of work being put into this, and there’s a lot of people that have been spending a lot of time, and energy, and prayer working on this. And I think that should give us all a lot of hope that some really wonderful things are going to come out of it.
It may help you to also know the selection criteria that the materials resource committee used in gathering the sources that would be included in this first phase. So, they looked for sources that covered a range of the different topics and aspects of our life and history. If you have started listening from the first time period, I am sure you have found that they included not just teachings, but memos and sharings and stories and articles as well. The committee asked: Is this more or less foundational to who we are as the People of Praise? They looked for substantial content . . . and there is a lot of substantial content! I am sure it was hard for them to choose.
As a reader, I personally found myself pretty much recommending everything! I don’t know that I was very helpful! [Mary laughs.] One of the questions on the reader feedback form that was really helpful to me was “Does this source help you understand the community as it was then?” They wanted the sources that would present what happened: events, not just a bunch of ideas.
So, I want to emphasize again: in Phase I, the work that we’re now engaged in, we want to understand what happened. What was it like, really and truly, concretely, on the ground? What were those members of the community experiencing at the time? How does the source reveal to us the circumstances as they were experienced by us, at that time? Several times when I was listening to a source, I would hear comments or laughter that reminded me—Oh! There are people there, in front of the speaker, some of whom I could even recognize from their laugh or from their voice. These were events in real time, at a specific place, and the speaker and his or her audience were embedded, just as we are, in a place and time. And it was from that that they were speaking and listening and responding to the Lord.
It might help you to know some things the material resource committee was not trying to do in selecting and presenting sources. They were not engaged in compiling a historical account of our life over the last 50 years. We want everyone to have direct access to that history, and to watch it develop themselves. They were not engaged in developing some kind of curriculum: “Read these sources and learn all you need to know about the People of Praise over the past 50 years!” And they were not trying to evaluate and update our past teachings for a present-day application.
So—how can you select from the catalog? So presuming that the group leaders you are training will not themselves, nor their groups, be able or maybe even interested in listening to and discussing all the sources from the first time period, how will you decide? Remember, asking the people that you serve, “How can I help you come to a deeper understanding of our People of Praise history? How can I serve you?” That’s crucial in both your leader groups, and then, in turn, in the men’s groups and women’s groups.
As a reader, I found it challenging to keep myself from making evaluative comments, like “Oh, so-and-so really needs to hear this talk! She really needs to understand right speech better than she does.” [Aside, with a chuckle:] And I need to understand right thinking!
So, here are some tips.
What are you interested in? Think of the time period sources as a library. Some of you may be old enough to remember the old card catalogs at libraries: drawers and drawers of cards organized alphabetically, sometimes by subject matter. All those books! It can be overwhelming. But keep reminding yourself and those that you are serving that you do not need to listen to them all! The materials resource team has performed such a monumental task organizing the talks for us and providing a short blurb for each, to guide our choice.
Pursue your own interests. When you read the short description, do any particular ones appeal to you? In discussions with your group leaders, be sure to encourage them to pursue their own interests. In turn, they can encourage the men and women in their groups to pursue their own interests.
What about practical limits on time? Does the material resource committee make any recommendations? They have created some “reading plans.” Maybe some of you have noticed that on the app or the website. They are like “guided paths” through the sources, for people who only have so much time to spend. If you only have a little time, we recommend that you choose from these five from the first time period. If you have a little more, you could choose from these 12 in the first time period. Et cetera.
The reading plans are available. Just look for the tab on the website or the app that says “Reading plans,” helpfully. For example, there are two plans listed for the 27 talks in the first time period sources. One plan lists five talks and the other lists 12 talks. Show those to the groups that you are training.
As individuals, each member can of course listen to as much as he or she wants to. If individuals want to gather in other groupings: as households or families, friends, women leaders, coordinators, etc., that’s all great. Discuss any of the sources that you want. We really want you to be free!
The time periods will be coming out each month: four time periods over four months, as Nick said, September through December. And we will make similar “reading plans” for the rest of the time periods.
So—how to listen to a talk and apply the information. . . . Oh, I’m sorry—not to apply the information. So, by our nature, we listen to a talk and do try to apply it to our lives now.
When I listened to a talk on the need for Christian environments, for example, I felt almost compelled to rush out and make all kinds of changes in our family life. But if we are to reach the goal of Phase I, understanding the sources, we need to refrain from applying it to our present life circumstances.
Actually, this kinda takes the pressure off. If I can just listen to what the speaker has to say and work hard at understanding the context, without any pressure of trying to make it fit into my present life and circumstances, it prevents my mind from wandering away from listening and into the morass of unhelpful judgments of myself or others with regard to how well or how I have not lived the life of the People of Praise as well as I should have.We don’t want to go there. We just want to listen.
But don’t lose those thoughts and inspirations that occur to you! Write them down under the third question. When you want to apply something to your current situation or when you have a strong emotional response that you want to consider later, write it down under the third question. Writing it down can get it off your mind, so to speak, long enough for you to get back to the business of listening to the talk as history. You’ll want those thoughts and inspirations for Phase II, but not for Phase I.
Here are four ways that you can discipline your listening. This will give us a big leg up on understanding.
For the sake of understanding, don’t take the teachings as teachings. Again, it’s not a teaching for you that has bearing on your present life. It’s just what the person said. The speaker is not instructing you or encouraging you to do anything, or to make any changes. He or she is just talking, just sharing. Your goal is to listen and to hear. What did he or she say?
Listening to a talk given 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago requires us to consider who the audience was, what was going on at the time. For instance, a 1974 talk by Kevin Ranaghan on following Jesus wholeheartedly was given at the third or fourth covenant-making ceremony. He didn’t say that, but we learned in the historical introduction document that there were 82 people in the community. Can you imagine that? Having that little bit of information helped us listen differently. Kevin’s talk was given at a particular time to particular people, and that time really looks different than what it looks like now. There were things happening in the life of the community. The talk had context. That context was whatever was happening in 1974, and the word that the Lord was speaking to us.
Imagine that you have traveled to a foreign country. Everything is alien. Everything is different. People dress and eat differently; they have different customs and traditions; even the language is different, or pronounced with an accent, so that you really have to listen to understand. In order to understand, you have to suspend making assumptions. Again, just listen. Don’t try to apply it to your current life.
All good historians read and listen to the past with a sympathetic ear: one that seeks to understand what happened or what was said, not to judge. It is so easy to get distracted and pulled away from our focus, which is to discover our history. Do your best to ignore the flashing fireflies of your own opinions and judgments, or even convictions of your spirit. This is not the time for that. If we can discern what the Lord was up to then, we will be better able to discern where he is leading us now. We have to exercise discipline when our minds and hearts go off track. Pull them back! Write those things down in some shorthand fashion under the third question, and then quickly get back to listening.
There is no test here, no evaluation of whether you have been a good community member for all these years. And there is no need to consider whether we need to go back to those “good old days”—especially if you don’t want to! We do not need to make any judgments or applications. Again, just listen. Are you beginning to hear a theme here? [Laughter.]
Try to meditate on the scene. Some of us have done Ignatian meditations. Think of it like that. You’re meditating on a scene. Imagine who was in the audience. You could even try to imagine what they were wearing. Where were they? Was it air conditioned? Was it too cold? [Chuckle and then laughter from audience in the auditorium, which is chilly.] What time of year might it have been? Can you tell from the audience responses how well they all knew each other? I heard voices I recognized, as I mentioned, in some of the talks, and it was really precious to hear the audience and the speaker laughing together. They were seeking unity of mind and heart, and humor.
Acknowledge, at least to yourself, any preconceived assumptions that you might have, so that you can put them aside. Exert some effort; listening well really does require you to engage your mind. The notebooks will be really helpful for this: with pen in hand and writing things down, you’ll be able to move along with the speaker more easily.
I flew in yesterday on an early flight, so everybody was sleeping. And I noticed, as I have before on any flight, that no one really listens to those directions that we get. [lIght laughter.] We could probably recite them ourselves if we have flown for a few times. In fact, I tested myself to see if I could, and I could. You know, those ones about seat belts and oxygen masks and “your cushion can be used as a flotation device in the unlikely case of an emergency water landing”—even when we are flying over the desert! [Laughter.] But imagine if 10 minutes into the flight, the pilot came on and said that he needed to make an emergency landing, and that he had very specific instructions for us. You betcha, I’d be listenin’! [Mary and all laugh.] And I bet you would be, too! That’s the difference between hearing, which is the first thing, and really listening, which is the second.
Now I’m going to address how we can lead a group in a decision about which sources to discuss as men’s or women’s groups. I’m going to give you a few tips on how to lead the group to make free and fun decisions, together, about what talks to listen to. For simplicity, I’m gonna address you like you are group leaders, like I am a mentor, training the group leaders that I’m responsible for. I’m going to model this so that you can train your group leaders the same way. And then we’re gonna role play a conversation like this up here, as a model for you, and then you’re gonna do it at your tables.
So, keep in mind that your initial and ongoing direction does not need to be heavy-handed. Again, be a servant leader: kind, deliberate, always pointing the way, always working for unity. In turn, encourage the members of your leaders groups to do the same. They will appreciate some clear leadership and direction, and they will respond to you if you act towards them with kindness and service.
Start the conversation with a prayer, that the Holy Spirit will be present to guide and unite you.
Notice that this is leading a group decision, not leading a group discussion. It can be helpful to “frontload” the conversation, by providing them with as much information as they want and that you have. We don’t want people to be confused or in the dark. We don’t want them to feel manipulated simply because they do not understand the process. So tell them what you know, all that information that I’ve given you. Let them see all the effort that is part of this process. It will generate enthusiasm and excitement. The Holy Spirit is at work!
There is no one way to do this. You and your leader group are going to figure out the best way to lead this decision-making conversation in a way that is going to work best for the members of the women’s group and men’s group. In fact, it might be good to start with that: by asking the members of the group what will work best for them in the conversation, how to proceed, how to keep track of everyone’s input, and how to ultimately make the decision. There is not a set way to do this. Appreciate everyone’s suggestions. Perhaps the group has a member that struggles with hearing or vision issues. Figure out how you can best serve each member in the conversation. Set the tone and the environment.
Perhaps the women’s group and men’s group members would be willing to look over and perhaps read the descriptions of each talk from the notebook. If they bring their notebooks with them, that would be great—but make sure that you have one. If the group members do not have time to read the descriptions ahead of time, maybe take some time before the conversation to do so. Perhaps they would like someone to keep track on a piece of paper of the suggestions that each member makes about what they want to listen to. Maybe a laptop would work better than a piece of paper, or a flipchart, or something else.
Also, decide together how you are going to decide. I don’t think most women’s groups want to settle it with arm wrestling. [Laughter.] But maybe! So, are you going to do it by vote? It would be best if the decision about what the group will listen and discuss together was done in this group conversation—that is, not anonymously sent in to the head of the group and voted on—because this conversation is an opportunity for unity, and will build and provide an opportunity to grow in understanding of one another. However, if it works better for the group to do anonymous voting, then do anonymous voting. If you want to throw all the suggestions into a hat, that works, too, and you could pick them out one at a time, or you could pick them out all at once to see what you’re going to listen to and when.
All right, my pages are mixed up here. Oh, no they’re not; they are just stuck together. Okay.
Try not to rush the conversation. You do want to come to a decision, but be patient. Resist controlling the conversation, and resist the desire to just make the decision yourself. Once a decision has been made, lean into it, even if it wasn’t what you wanted.
I have given you some handouts. You don’t need to look at them now. I just wrote some of these things down so that you would have them. So—one of them is on best practices to improve listening skills. So I am just going to mention a few.
Starting—sometimes when we start to say something at the same time as someone else, it’s a bit like those moments when you and someone else go for the handle of a door, or you step towards the elevator or the escalator, or you go for the last cookie. . . . We tend to say, “Go ahead.” “No, you go ahead.” And that can go on for a long time. Assuming you have the right of way doesn’t work unless you actually have the right of way.
Look directly at the person when you are listening, even turning your body towards them; fully engage. Listening is actively participating. Without active participation, engagement of the mind, one is only learning—I’m sorry—one is only hearing, and not learning. Here’s an analogy. I’m not much of an athlete, but I do know that catching in baseball or catching in football is as important as the throw. The action is not completed until the ball is caught. And if we do not penetrate to the mind that utters the words, the result is a “failure to communicate” (if any of you have ever seen Cool Hand Luke). [Audience laughs.]
Turn your back on distractions—literally. If you are distracted and miss something that someone said, turn to the person and ask them kindly to repeat it. And I suggest not having phones. And I realized after I wrote the handout that I said “No Phones!”—exclamation point. And I thought “Wait a second. No, no. That’s very directive.” Sorry about that. So here’s a little editorial for that one: at least decide together how you are going to use phones. I know some people like to take notes on their phones, so be open to what your group needs.
Then—finally, I just want to point out a couple [of] obstacles that prevent us from listening well. Sometimes we pay more attention to the speaker’s mannerisms than to what he is saying. Or sometimes we react to certain words or phrases that call forth in us an adverse emotional response. There is one talk where my mom used the word “subordination,” and it just—OOH. [Laughter.] Every time I heard it, I just didn’t like it. But I knew what she was getting at, so I tried to push forward. So, again, try to set ’em aside. Write them down in that third part if you need to.
I don’t know about you, but I have a wandering mind. And, again, writing things down when I am distracted by them is helpful. Actually, writing down the things that are distracting me can be helpful. It just gets it off my brain. You can also lean forward, or move closer to the person or the sound source. Don’t move too close, but—you know what I mean. [Laughter.] Turn away from anything in the room that you find distracting, including your phone or a clock. Try your best to resist making mental lists of what you need to do tomorrow.
We aren’t really interes- —if you are not really interested in the topic, it’s easy to get more distracted. And if you didn’t see the point in investing much effort in the listening, it’s going to be a challenge for you. So I encourage you to think of it as an opportunity to grow in unity with your brothers and sisters. They wanted to listen to this talk, so listen with them to this talk that they wanted to listen to.
Try to be open. You might be surprised. A very wise man once said to me that even if you just get one morsel from something you listen to, even if it’s not connected to the talk [Mary chuckles], it may prove very fruitful. In other words, the Holy Spirit can speak.
If you don’t understand—maybe you don’t understand, or can’t even hear some of the talk or sharing. Maybe the speaker is moving too quickly for you, and you begin to feel frustrated. Again, move closer to the source. Resist the urge to interrupt, because remember, the others are listening, too. And if you interrupt and ask a question while the tape is still going, the sound is still going, you are going to cause them to miss out. So write down your questions. Make the environment as conducive as possible to good listening.
Ok. So now we’re going to do a little role play. Oh, I’m right on time! Imagine that! So, can my role play people come up? And this is just an opportunity for you to see how a conversation like this could—a conversation in a women’s group could take place.
[Aside regarding the microphone:] Should I just use this one?
I’ve been in women’s group with some of these wonderful ladies. So. . . . And they are not going to give me a hard time. Right? [Laughter.] That’s not the point of this role play.
[Aside:] . . . go the wrong way.
JULIE: We could share things! [Laughter.]
MARY: Okay. So, again, I am gonna be the women’s group leader, and I’m gonna try to initiate this conversation on how we are gonna pick out what sources we are gonna listen to.
[Aside:] Can one of you—do one of you have a time . . . keeper? I just want to spend 10 minutes on it, so. . . . Okay.
JULIE: She has her phone.
MARY: She does. [Laughter.] I told her that she could. She’s allowed, but you’re not. [Continued laughter.]
MARY [to the role play group:] Hi, ladies! So glad we all could make it tonight! I’ll—and I—I think you remember we were gonna talk about, ah, what sources we want to listen to together and discuss? So, did you have a chance to look over the booklet and—and read the little blurbs and see if anything appealed to you or is interesting to you?
JULIE: I don’t get it. What are we doing?
MARY: It—for tonight, or what are we doing in general?
JULIE: In general.
MARY: In general. [Audience laughter.] So. . . . [Mary and audience laugh.] So we are—we’re—so this is part of the consultation; the first part of the consultation is Phase 1. And in Pha—so there’s two phases. I think. And. . . . [Aside to audience:] It’s okay to say you don’t know something, by the way. [Mary laughs.]
Um, so, in Phase 1, we’re gonna be listening—all the community members are encouraged to listen to the sources that have been put together in these booklets. And there will be four time periods. This is just the first time period.
And we can decide which ones we want to listen to. And we’re gonna have discussions on them, basically just looking at what was said and why we think it was said. And then—all that information is gonna help us then when we go to Phase 2, which will be—those directions will come to us, at some point later.
That—is that good? Okay. Does anybody else have any questions? About what this is about?
KARA: I have one. I’m wondering how often we will be doing this? Or—do we have so many that we have to do, or . . . ?
MARY: There’s no set number. We can decide how many we want to listen to together. How much time of our women’s group that we want to take doing this. I think that the months will be different, you know: September is maybe not as busy as November or December . . . ? Certainly December. So we can decide how many we want to listen to, and how much time we want to spend on it.
Any other questions?
So did—did anybody bring the booklet? Oh. . . . [Julie enthusiastically raises her booklet into the air. Audience laughs.]
KATHY: I did not bring my booklet.
[At the same time:]
LIZ: I didn’t bring the booklet.
KARA: I didn’t bring it either, sorry.
MARY: Okay. That’s okay! That’s okay. Did you guys have time to look at it, ahead of time? At all?
JULIE: In the car.
[Audience laughs.]
MARY [laughing]: Okay. Okay.
KARA: I, ah. . . .
MARY: I hope not while you were driving. [Audience laughs.] Okay. . . .
KARA: I. . . .
MARY: Just at the stop sign?
KARA: I read mine during my prayer time every day.
MARY: Oh!
KARA: And I got ’em all read through about three times, so. . . . [inaudible]
MARY: All the blurbs?
KARA: Yep. All ready.
MARY: Okay. So. . . .
KATHY: I had a really busy week, so I did not get to that.
MARY: Okay. That’s fine. That’s fine. Do you, um—do you need to go over—you could share with Julie. And, we could look at them, and—because I think it’d be good if we wrote down which ones we wanna do.
KATHY: Okay.
MARY: Okay.
KATHY: I could—on my phone, I could keep a list of which ones?
MARY: Well, I was wondering—yeah, how do we want to keep track of it? If we—if—if one person keeps track of it on your phone, um, then we can’t all see it. So. . . .
JULIE: I brought a notebook.
MARY: Okay, that could work.
LIZ: I’ve got it on my. . . . [holds up iPad]
MARY: Oh, there you go!
LIZ: . . . on my. . . . [She continues speaking, inaudibly, at same time as Mary.]
MARY: Oh wow, you even have them all—okay.
LIZ: . . . see it real well.
MARY: Yeah. Well that’s good.
LIZ: . . . talk about it
MARY: We could—we could even, you know, pass it down.
LIZ: Mm-hmm.
MARY: Might be helpful to see, you know, who’s suggesting what and—and why. That—is that—is that good? Gonna work for everybody?
So, the—the final thing I think we should talk about, and then—and then let’s look at what we want to look at, ah—is how are we gonna decide. Right? So, if we have, you know—like, Liz has three that she wants to listen to, and Julie has five that she wants to listen to, and Kara evidently wants to listen to all of them. . . .
KARA: Three times.
MARY: Yeah. And then. . . . [Mary and audience laugh.] And Kathy, you know, you have however many you want to listen to. How are we going to decide which ones we’re gonna listen to?
KARA: I was thinking maybe, um, we could talk about it, and then maybe you could decide? For us? [Audience laughs.] Once we talk about it?
MARY: I’d rather not. [Mary and audience laugh.]
KATHY: What if we, like, each picked a week? And picked the talk for that week? And rotate it?
MARY: Oh, that’s an interesting idea! Do we want to listen to one every week?
KATHY: I’d like to.
LIZ: And also, we might want to look at how long the talks are, and decide how much time in our group we want to spend.
MARY: Okay. So, I think we better handle the first question—the question that Kathy has raised first. How many of these do we want to listen to? And do we want to listen every week?
JULIE: If there’s—some are short, that would be great. But if some are longer, how’re we gonna do that in our time limit?
MARY: Mm-hmm.
LIZ: This might be the only time I listen to and discuss talks.
MARY: Mm-hmm.
LIZ: So, one a week . . . might be good.
MARY: One a week might be good?
KARA: But, also, we have, I think, a couple birthdays—
MARY: Mm-hmm.
KARA: . . . coming up too, so I don’t know how we do that, and you were maybe going to have that surgery, so I’m just—I’m not sure.
JULIE: And don’t forget about the Monday night Vikings game?
KARA: Yeah.
[Audience laughs and claps.]
KARA: Yeah. True statement.
MARY: We can do it at the same time. [Mary and audience laugh.] We’ll just keep the sound down on the Vikings game [more laughter]. Unless they make a touchdown or something.
KARA: Touchdown Jesus!
[Mary and audience laugh.]
MARY [to timekeeper:] Are we at 10 yet? [Audience laughs.]
[To audience] So, you can kind of see how this—how that would work. Let’s say that we’ve decided that we’re going to listen just twice a month as a women’s group to a talk.
[To the role play group:] All right, so now let’s—how would we—go ahead and list off some things that you want to, ah, listen—oh no, we haven’t decided how we’re gonna decide! All right. . . .
LIZ: Maybe—Maybe we could list, like, our top three choices. . . .
MARY: Okay.
LIZ: . . . and then kind of look together and see—we all kind of choose one or two. . . .
MARY: If there’s overlap?
LIZ: . . . of the same talk?
MARY: Oh, that’s a good idea. I like that idea. What if—what if not? What will we do then? Or should we just cross that bridge when we get to it?
LIZ: What?
MARY: So if—so if we don’t have enough overlap. . . .
LIZ: Oh, yeah.
MARY: Should we just cross that bridge when we get to it?
LIZ: I guess—I don’t—yeah. [Liz laughs.]
MARY: Okay. [Mary and audience laugh.]
KATHY: I mean, I’d be okay picking them out of a hat, too.
KARA: Yeah, I like that idea.
JULIE: Just like to arm wrestle.
[Mary and audience laugh.]
KARA: What’d you say?
KATHY: She just wants to arm wrestle.
MARY: All right. So, let’s—yeah, let’s just list the ones that we want to do and we’ll see what happens. And maybe there—maybe there’ll be enough overlap that we can just go with that, or maybe we can throw them all in a hat and see—see how that works.
[To audience] Okay, here we go. You got the idea.
[Applause.]
Thank you, ladies!
MARY: All right, so you can see how that happens. Now I’d like you to practice at your tables. And—so, pick a—pick your leader, and then—oh, wait, no, no, no! Sorry.
Nano! Can you process for me?
Forgot. Nano’s going to ask some questions of me and of you guys, but you can stay—they can stay at their . . . things. Okay.
NANO: [no mic] So Mary Fra— Mary Frances, ah. . . . [with mic] Mary Frances!
MARY: Hi, Nano! [laughs]
NANO: Was there one question that you remember that you asked that helped move the group forward?
MARY: I thought that the question about how we were going to decide seemed to generate, actually, the most enthusiasm. You know, how we were going to make the decision, and they seemed to have more to say about that. Even than—they didn’t seem really anxious, or enthusiastic, necessarily, about telling us—telling everybody what they wanted to listen to, which I thought was interesting.
NANO: And how did you include everyone?
MARY: Well they kind of all did participate. I think—did I—did I ask anybody, specifically, what they wanted to do? And did I try to engage somebody who wasn’t as engaged?
NANO: I don’t know.
[Audience laughs.]
MARY: [Laughs. Then she says to the audience:] Part of the purpose of processing a role play—first of all, it’s a “role play,” not “real play.” And part of the pro—part of the purpose for processing it is so that I can remember what I did. Because Nano can tell me, or, you know, whoever is processing it with me can tell me. Or the members can say what they thought and how they experienced it.
NANO: Is there anything you wished you would’ve said?
MARY: I wished I had been a little bit more organized. You know, like, talk about this first, and then talk about this. But, on the other hand, it wasn’t really possible, because the conversation is so much more organic, you know? So, I want to move on to talking about what sources we’re gonna pick, and then, you know, I kind of get—it’s not a wrench, it’s just a—it’s just a “detour” [Mary laughs], you know, of, “Well, I want to listen to them every week!” You know? I wasn’t expecting that. And maybe I should have asked that first. Yeah.
NANO: Good job.
MARY: Oh, thanks.
[Applause.]
WOMAN 1 from audience: [asking a question, inaudible]
MARY: Yes, yeah, that’s optional.
MAN: Can you repeat?
MARY: Oh yeah, the question was—I think the question was. . . . Are you going—well, here.
WOMAN 1 [with mic]: At first when you began, I thought that you were saying that we would be discussing these talks in our group. But it implied that we would be listening and then discussing. So I wanted to know if that was optional, the way the groups chose to do that?
MARY: It’s my understanding that it’s optional. But that it’s optimal to listen to them together. Because, for one thing, it’s more immediate, you know? So when you ask the question—you know, “What did he say?” or “What did she say?—you’re gonna have it right there in front of you. And you’re gonna get to hear from other people in real time what they heard. So, that’s optimal—but, you know, you’re free.
So, what I’d like you all to do is to have this conversation at your tables. And so, pick somebody to be the leader of the men’s group or women’s group or whatever group, and have this conversation. And I’ll time it, and then I’ll stop you, and then we’ll move on.
WOMAN 2 from audience: It’s still role playing?
MARY: It’s—yes, you’re role playing. Role playing. Yes. Definitely.
And in this—at this point, it would be helpful if you weren’t difficult. [Mary and audience laugh.]
[Buzz of conversation; audio skips to end of audience role play.]
MARY: Okay. I want to stop you there and give you some time to—I think there are some reflection questions on your tables, maybe? Yes? Okay. Oh, in the—okay, there’s an envelope that has reflection questions in it.
[Another woman says something inaudible from audience.]
MARY: Oh, it’s a little handout. Okay. Can’t see. [Mary chuckles.]
So, take just about five minutes for that. And then I just have a couple concluding comments.
[Buzz of conversation.]
Go ahead and fill those out now. I think . . . ? Yes. And then, I have a couple more comments to make after you spend five minutes on that. Are you listening, table number 9? [Mary and audience laugh.] Callin’ ya out, table number 9!
[Buzz of conversation. Audio skips to end of audience reflection time.]
MARY: Okay, just two concluding comments. So, listening and making group decisions this way is a way to put our life more in common. It’s going to foster unity. It’s going to underscore that the leader doesn’t own the group, like a king or queen. Everyone has responsibility for participation, and everybody has a responsibility for the outcome. And that will help in all future discussions of the sources, as each member has a personal way to self-evaluate his or her participation.
So I want to encourage you to always begin with prayer. Not a long prayer but a short prayer. And pray for the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And pray against the devil, who will try and subvert your efforts. He will try to divide and confuse your group. So resist the devil and he will flee.
[Recording ends here.]
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